Welcome to the school of greatness my name is Lewis Howes a former athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur and each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today, now let the class begin. Consistent hard work leads to success and greatness will come. And for more than a decade Chris served at Ramses solutions spreading the message of hope to audiences across the country as a financial coach and Ramsay personality. These are people with regular 9 to 5 jobs who became millionaires and they brace down how you can do it as well.
We talked about the difference being rich and building wealth and why you need to know about both of them. Also the power of business to make an impact and not chase money and how to plan for financial obstacle throughout your business and life. I really enjoyed this conversation Chris and I have a lot in common than I realized.
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Big thank you again to our sponsors and I am so excited about this episode without further ado let me dive into this one with the one and the only Chris Hogan. Hogan: Good to see you brother. Hogan: Serious work too. This was in during the height of like. Hogan: Oh yes. And I went into the banking industry because what I wanted to do was if I could create the sports mentality and that team work attitude and business community that I knew we could do something special.
So, it started down that path went down to banking and you know got to the point where I was pushing products and setup helping people. Hogan: Yes. Lewis: Exactly, my dad was in life insurance for 30 years. Hogan: And so I had a chance to cross path with Dave Ramsay at a charity event. Lewis: When was this? Hogan: This was back in Join the team there and started, I was working with pro-athletes entertainers and musicians.
I was trying to help them understand how to control their money, so many of them as you well know depends on their agents or their business manager and a lot of them gets taken advantage of. So, obviously I wanted to empower people to know what steps to take. Hogan: 2 years after retirement think about that for a minute. Lewis: Yeah, these guys make 50 to hundred million dollars.
Hogan: And how do you go broke right? You do it one swipe at a time. So anyway all that I started speaking and teaching and what I wanted to do was to empower people. Lewis: So how long did this take? None of those are true. And when you get the right people with the right information results can happen.
Lewis: I want to talk about this myth that millionaires. What are the myth that surround the millionaires? Nope, a 3rd of the millionaires that we talked to never made 6 figures in a single working year. Lewis: Really? Hogan: Think about that for a second dual income never made 6 figures.https://gentsatarcala.gq/my-3rd-grade-teacher.php
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So that blows that myth out. Lewis: A lot of people with 6 figures salaries have nothing in the bank. Hogan: Thank you. Lewis: Because they spend it all and they are using credit constantly. I remember I was making 30 grand and I thought when I get serious 1 year out of grad school 30 to 40 grand. So let me tell you this top 3 positions of the 10, millionaires we studied. Accountants same thing they were number 2 accounting stuff. Number 3 was teachers. Lewis: Wow they are not making that much.
Hogan: Exactly and they are the undervalued, underpaid. How are teachers doing this? Well, if you think about what it is, wealth building is a long term view not a quick hit. So this get rich quick scheme that we see on TV late night they get me riled up because they are preying on people. But these people who are people who built wealth overtime, investing in their k.
Lewis: What are some of the things that they do on a daily basis? These millionaires what are some of the steps to take and how do they think than non-millionaires? Now think about it for a minute we have a victim mentality issue in America today. Lewis: Yes. Hogan: Where we want to blame somebody for us not achieving something or getting in our way. So these millionaires think differently. Lewis: They never carried debt? My using card paid off every month.
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Hogan: So the mindset and I love to give people on economics and a pitch on economics. Interest earned on my investments is a reward. So why choose to penalize yourself? I mean how rooted does that keep you?
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Personally, emotionally, financially? And went to some dark places over a few years. So, you can imagine working through something like that. Lewis: How did you get through that initial few years of stuffing or pain? But I want to encourage people to do this not only find those 4, you need to be one of those 4 for someone else.
Lewis: You need to be a mentor, a coach, a friend and a cheerleader? Hogan: Absolutely. And when you do that now what it does is it takes the focus off of you. One of the things you and I have in common is that I firmly believe that if you ever walk through a mess in your life then it qualifies you to be a messenger. Lewis: It does. Lewis: Who is your mentor, coach, cheerleader and friend? Friends I got amazing friends, childhood friends, people at the office, people that care about me as an individual and not just what I do.
Lewis: Not the book and this and that? Lewis: What would say is your biggest insecurity, fear or challenge right now? Hogan: I think my biggest fear is am I doing everything that I could be doing? Now start to go do that. Lewis: So what do you do now in terms of your own wealth? How are you, you probably learned a lot from your years in the banking world? Hogan: Okay the phase I am right now is obviously continued growth. Because with inflation [? And so if you look at this you would laugh at that but we got people seriously pursue that. Lewis: So what does that mean?
Lewis: What are some of those decisions? Hogan: Staying allergic to debt. But I think about, I think I made more money by not doing things that I would have by going down the path. Lewis: 8 startups over the last 8 years guess how many money I made? Hogan: How much? Lewis: 0 Hogan: How much did you invest?
Lewis: Probably around and grand. Hogan: And you know what you pay the dollar amount but you learn some stuff. Hogan: Pay cash. Hogan: I save up and pay. Now what does that make me? Makes me patience and, you got kids yet? Lewis: No kids. Hogan: Oh you got freedom and money. So for me I look at debt as limits me from doing what I want to do. Talking to these millionaires the number 1 thing they said that cause them to build wealth was employment retirement plans.
Lewis: What else can you do to invest your money besides, what else do you personally do or advice people do to invest? Hogan: Well you can, also people typically think I can only invest in my k right? No you can invest outside of retirement plans for the future. For example I talked about in my book I talked about I want to retire by age of 54, and so in looking at that what does that mean? Chris May 12, , am. Forest City Doug May 12, , am. After sleeping in and checking my investments online I just love seeing those dividends coming in! I got to drive my 11 year old Honda, which recently replaced a 20 year old Chrysler, to where I want, when I want.
Better yet, I can ride my vintage Raleigh bicycle to where I want, when I want for shorter trips around town. Good luck to both of our friends here! They earned the freedom they have and deserve respect especially from themselves! Money Mustache May 11, , pm.
It makes it pretty easy, when you have amazing and interesting readers like these who voluntarily send you their stories to share. I am always surprised by, and thankful for, the people who seem to hang around here. David May 12, , am. Since my earlier email, we have 1 sold the large museum we were pleased to call our primary residence, 2 sold most of the contents of that museum which we used to call personal possessions, and 3 made plans to relocate to an awesome new community.
Your comments were very interesting concerning an unlocked jail cell. It may seem that way to outsiders, but to the inmate who regularly receives a powerful cocktail of Fame, Fortune and Approval, the world inside the jail is quite wonderful at times. Time to be thinking bigger of course, and I can only suggest a future post on the incredible Salad Table! This easy to make carpentry project will transform the lunch and dinner table with a carpet of delectable produce that is harvested within minutes of mealtime. Check it out on the University of Maryland website and if you like it, perhaps share it with your readers.
M May 13, , am. I doubt the Stockholm analogy. In my career, I reflected and turned away from the conspicuous consumerism of some in my profession. I know now that was the discipline that resulted in our affluence. In the end, I was the investor and saver who kicked the 60 yard field goal from the 30 yard line. The reason to admire MMM is that he grasped the age old techniques of thrift and self reliance and he had the skills and confidence in his own abilities to strike out on his own at a young age. Lee Lau May 13, , am. Hello former lawyer. I too am a former lawyer and checked out 8 years ago.
I did get a bit bored of skiing and biking full time so have chosen to take on work that I like and work with people I like on a very part time basis. Vancouverois May 14, , pm. Funny — just yesterday, I came across this very long, but very interesting article about the legal profession:. Mike May 14, , pm. Robyn May 13, , am. Perfect response to both people, esp Despondent Millionaire. Thank you for that. Probably helped a lot of other folks too. Jason McCain May 11, , pm. Chasing after his brother-in-laws approval will be a sure path to ruin. The bible instructs us to keep a simple eye consumerism complicates , MMM provides great tactics to this end.
In the end, our writer can give his wife much more than his brother-in-law can give his wife. He can give her inspiration, time, uninterrupted love, true joy, friendship, and much more because he is free from the entrappings of a lifestyle. I appreciate the encouragement given to him to change his perspective and to focus on his own self esteem.
Jacob iHeartBudgets May 11, , pm. Well said! Kinda makes me physically ill to think about. Maybe you can set more people free to consumer slavery and start a counter-culture financial revolution to have people cut the crap and stop trying to 1-up each other. Must-stash May 13, , pm. Love this post and love this comment! I still catch myself occasionally feeling bad and thinking, maybe I should change my strategy and try to get the big house, the nicer clothes, etc. So, I gave myself a playful punch in the face and decided to run for the homeowners association Board so that I could influence mosquito controls in the neighborhood.
Kristina June 12, , pm. Our population of geckos we brought in has done far more than the spraying ever did, just an idea. Kraig May 12, , am. Good diagnosis. As if getting a job will make him more successful. Now, he should live his life without caring about income. And as for the first guy, wow, how crazy is it that someone can be financially independent for a decade and not realize it. The costs are just too high…. There is so much in that movie that relates to what you and others have brought up in the discussion.
Jorge May 12, , am. I wonder if it is not too risky to invest all your money in an indexed fund. What if the stock market crash and your million bucks become k and produces practically nothing a month? Could you explain it a bit more or point me to another post were you explain it? Many thanks for your great blog. Rob aka Captian and Mrs Slow May 12, , pm. Indivualial stocks yes, a universe of stocks no. Jeff May 13, , pm. I love when people say stuff like this. Like people starving in the streets, loss of domestic order, no electricity, etc.
Pessimist May 14, , am. Just four short years ago the Dow was That is the blocking fear for me to retire. Money Mustache May 14, , pm. First of all, dividend payouts held fairly steady during the crash, so a good chunk of your income was unaffected. Then, you would have sold a small amount of shares to fund the rest of your lifestyle, which would have depleted a tiny bit of your principal.
But you probably would have made some minor lifestyle adjustments during the crash to help preserve capital, reducing this effect. Maybe a domestic instead of international vacation that year, for example, or less expensive wine. But this low-stock-prices condition only persisted for a year or so.
The recovery was fast and furious. Market crashes would only be catastrophic to the stock-only early retiree if stocks dropped and then stayed low for longer than any period in the 60 years considered for the Trinity Study. You also have to consider diversification. Pessimist May 17, , am.
Perhaps the plunge was a bad example. Then you are in a situation where you have to either take out more principal or get back into a lost career. I think its dangerous to think that at this precise moment, with the DOW at an all time high and bonds at an all-time? Freedom Invested December 15, , pm. Slight typo above. This is 25 times your annual spending. You also may not be eating as much of your principal as you think if you consider dividend returns.
For example, 30 times your annual spending. Spencer May 12, , am. I feel bad for that millionaire. Good on you, Mr. MM, for showing him the light. You took a pretty gentle approach with him. Stop worrying about what other people think. Glad he woke up. Hope the Despondent Millionaire does too. Pop Planting Our Pennies May 12, , am. CashRebel May 12, , am. That quote fits so well! Congrats to the Despondent Millionaire! Many apologies if it sounded harsher than intended. Feeling good about those actions will help direct the rest of his happy life.
Sara May 12, , am. For me, one of the best things about your blog is its positivity. I am not naturally optimistic — glass half empty is more my default. And that I am actually doing really well even though I will never earn close to what your young Londoner of a few blogs ago is already getting at 25 — and I have 20 years on him. Greg November 1, , am. I feel the same way! The attitude, the enthusiasm, the gusto, the optimism is the treasure in this blog.
Debtblag May 12, , am. First off, you are amazing and this response is amazing. Thank you. So much about personal finance is about changing your perceptions and you really hit the nail on the head. Thank you so much. Dragline May 12, , am. Hope the despondent dude can find some peace. Rick Roberts May 12, , am. Here, here. Friends are the family you choose.
Kingston May 13, , pm. Asset Allocation May 12, , am. Several years ago, I was like the lawyer — I thought I was a long way off from FI according to all the experts in Money Magazine and elsewhere. My son discovered Mr. I retired almost a year ago and it has been wonderful. Mike UB May 12, , am. First ERE. And I really owe it to these 2 bloggers and the commenters. The freedom and self assuredness is something I could have never realized in the past.
Right on MMM, you are da man. And the idea of providing for her is ridiculous. I totally agree, but I would caution against taking too heavy handed an approach. Instead, the couple should set aside an hour for talk. With plans for many more. He should really ask her what her financial goals are. And actually listen. He will hopefully get the chance to share his as well but listening is the first step.
Once both of them have explained what your goals are, see how to mesh them. Then, and only then, will he be ready to discuss the means to get there. And get there jointly. Women are just so important. Melissa May 12, , pm. I hope his wife will come around, because that guy totally rocks!! He should pat himself on the back!! Lisa May 12, , am. Bill C May 12, , am.
Despondents first duty is to realize for himself how successful he is and how great life can be. Step two is talking to his wife. I can attest that this is difficult, but by no means is it impossible. To my wife, the idea of staying home to with our kid and to not have to worry about money was enough to get her moving in my direction.
No doubt Mr. Christine May 12, , am. Yeah it looks like his wife may be unhappy but misguided at this point. Thinking more money will make her happier? That is what I sensed anyways. If they could brainstorm together what the perfect life would look like together perhaps My Despondent could show her how its all possible now… well within reason! They may need to find cheaper versions if she dreams of cruise ships and such. I wish them all the best and congratulations to Mr Despondent for getting to this point in his life! The wife is also her own person with her own earning potential, her own hobbies, her own goals etc.
There was even a chapter about that in the book the church made us read before we got married. The family is a team with joint goals. Christine Wilson May 13, , am. Well that is another thing to consider: how his own self-confidence is influencing his relationship. Just as MM said that it helps to be confident when looking for a job to get the best possible, same goes for our relationships!
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So certainly if he could work on his confidence, that may be all that is needed. Good point. Perhaps Mr. Reading MMM blogs, meaningful hobbies and volunteering has definitely validated my decision to walk away from hamster wheel 20 years early. Kenoryn May 14, , pm. Amanda May 12, , am. My mom once told me I was dressed like a hobo because I was in a t-shirt and ratty jeans we were sitting at a HS girls basketball game in a farming community, I actually fit in better than she did. I used to get offended, but one day I decided that if anyone made comments about my attire I would remind them that I was dressed perfectly appropriate for whatever event and I was a grown damn woman who could dress herself.
Funny thing is — I never had to make that comment. When I decided in my head that it was ok, everyone else knew too. Tim May 12, , am. Make friends that are in a similar situation! This community is great, but you need friends that can come over to your house for a beer and talk about how great life is. Maybe you can start a local MMM community? Calculate how many years of living expenses you have stashed. He seems to have his identity so wrapped up in the thoughts of others.
Stop trying to be such a people pleaser and learn to appreciate what you have in life! Just Askin May 12, , am. Where did you build that stone dam? I have concerns with the issue of private property…. Money Mustache May 12, , am. Our creek is called the St. Vrain, and the entire thing is a long public park with paths that winds through the city from West to East.
I find that in cities, the best land is usually the public land. In rural areas, the land is more chopped up into large bits of private property until you hit a national forest or something.. One of the reasons I have always liked city living. TheHeadHunter May 13, , am. I like that dam picture… It looks like you 2 had a lot of dam fun… What a dam good way to spend a day…. Tim Cinel May 12, , pm. But even on public property, streets and highways, US citizens are not free.
Btw, that author lived in a van in graduate school to avoid student loans, aka lifetime debt—very mustachian. Jana Miller May 12, , am. I found the second story so sad. Forget the bother in law and find some real family in friends with like minded goals in life. TOM May 13, , am. AC May 12, , am. Great post. I worked extremely hard to get where I am in my career. I worry that too much of my self esteem is riding on my professional success. Without a career, will I too become despondent and spend the day watching TV? MMM lives an awesome lifestyle, will I be able to keep as busy?
We have been retired for about two years and are never bored. But in our whole lives we always saw way more things to do then there was time for. We were never bored because there were always new things that interested us. I can give you a huge list of ways to meaningfully spend your time and life but actually only you can create the list that will work for you. We loved our jobs but we love the freedom of retirement more. My husband says he has not once missed working and I agree. AC May 13, , pm. Thanks for the encouraging words.
You are right that I will need to do some more self examination. ER is appealing in many ways; but I am still not sure it is right for me. I sat around aimless and doing not much for 3 months after ER. Then I came to the realization that I own my happiness and self worth. Luckily I had developed a love of the outdoors, travel and volunteering earlier in life and rekindled those activities. Now I have more interests on my plates than time. Good for you! Cathy Severson May 12, , am. Great stories. Just like you, I try to spread the word about perspective. While accurate, most or many people have hid their heads in the sand, as a result.
We need to change our perspective about retirement, money and what it takes to be happy in this culture. Thank you for your contribution to this conversation. CL May 12, , am. The quitting lawyer is inspirational, but the best of this post is the despondent millionaire. It is all about perspective. My own family, though comprised of frugal immigrants, has been derisive of my desire for early retirement. My mom and dad seem to think that even the thought of retirement this includes THEIR retirement is childish nonsense, according to what they have said to me and other family members.
CALL May 12, , am. Perspective is everything. About 14 months ago, I was driving home from a job interview with my family for a much higher paying job, and had a tire blow out on the edge of a moderate sized town. I put the spare on and went to the first tire store I saw. It was late afternoon, and I still had a 4 hour drive. I went to the next store, which happened to be Walmart. As an aside, I despise Walmart for more reasons than anyone wants to hear.
I go there out of necessity once every years. I was fuming. We wanted to get home! I hate Walmart! What stupid rotten luck! Why today! My life was pretty damn great! I made a conscious decision to keep that new perspective with me, and I have become so much happier in all aspects of my life.
A few months later, I found this community of like minded, positive outlooked, frugal badasses. Good luck to Mr. Despondant Millionaire!
Marvin May 13, , am. Great comment. I remember reading something in a particularly low period in my life that asked me to do that. I was living in a beautiful comfortable house, I had a wonderful wife, plenty of food to eat too much for that matter! That recognition brought me out of my funk and changed my perspective. I still practice it on a regular basis if not daily. It is incredibly important. Alexandra May 14, , am.
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I totally agree with your comments regarding gratitude. Focusing on what you have instead of what you lack usually results in a sheepish realization of how wealthy all of us Americans anyway are. My husband takes it one step further and goes for a walk and picks up trash on his walk. I think he has the right idea. Anne May 14, , am. Great story! I blew out a tire a few years back, and after using a few choice words remembered that I was so fortunate to be able to pull over in a well lit area, have the money not to choose between a new tire and food that week, etc. BNL May 12, , am. My uncle, in his heyday at a consulting firm was working hours per week, even at 50 years old.
He owns a 50 foot boat with a DirecTV satellite dish that sat on some sort of gyroscopic doodad that allowed it to always point south towards the satellite. He has so many cars that he actually had a second level installed into his 3 car garage.
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A few years ago, my uncle suffered from a serious heart defect that was brought upon by stress. I felt terrible. He almost died. A few months ago, he came to visit me in my new house. He saw that I had downsized from my sqft house, down to soft — and he assumed I must have gotten into some financial trouble. I gave him a good hearty laugh and explained that no, in fact I would be quitting my job soon. Anyways, MMM is absolutely right. They are framed around money in his letter, but there are some poor people with great family lives, and some lonely rich people.
So that may make things feel too tight for him on a day-to-day basis. Executioner May 12, , am. It sounds like he needs to find a way to bridge the gap for the next 9 years until he is But of course he will have to pay taxes on the withdrawals at that point too. I can understand his frustration. It would be nice if there was an exception in the US tax code that allowed for a complete conversion of retirement accounts to taxable accounts for those who do not intend to work until age Jared May 12, , pm. Executioner May 12, , pm. Already did it. The inflexibility of the SEPP is enough to make it less than useful as a sole source of income for a substantially early retirement.
For the focus of this MMM post, however, it may make sense, since he has only years left until hitting Ideally it would be great if one could withdraw significantly more each year, if one could prove that the account s could sustainably provide a higher annual income over time. Your point is exactly why individuals need to save money in accounts that is not tied to a Kyle May 13, , pm.
You just have to choose how much you feel like paying in taxes. Executioner May 14, , am. Interesting…so Roth conversion amounts are treated the same as contributions for withdrawal purposes? Will have to research that further. Thanks for the tip. Gmaxwell May 15, , am. Not quite the same— contributions can be withdrawn right away without penalty, conversions need to season for 5 years. But this means that so long as you have enough non-tax-advantaged funds to cover 5 years you can setup a pipeline where every year the rollover from 5 years ago becomes withdrawable without penalty.
There is an exception to the With that said though, in some cases the penalty still works out better than saving post-tax. I still contribute to my k as a primary retirement vehicle because I work in California, where every dollar I defer to my k would otherwise be subject to a 9. I do still save beyond that amount and hope to minimize the penalized withdraws of course, but in my circumstances the penalty is less than a percent more than just the state tax. You can convert to Roth and pay tax on it now, which you would have to do eventually anyway. Then you can let the funds sit for the 5-year grace period, after which they can be taken out without penalty.
Maybe the B-I-L owns everything free and clear, and simply has more and always will. Get off the merry go round, Millionaire — there will be always be some who have more than you. But only YOU can decide whether and when you have enough. And if you decide you do a reasonable position, from most perspectives , then come to terms with your crazy, eternally demanding family. And what if the worst happens, and your wife wants a divorce?
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